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Re: [WMASTERS] charset and grantha


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     anbuLLa naagu:

     [I've deleted several parts of the original message]

*>         The idea is NOT to FULLY reproduce the non-tamil sounds, but
*>         only to PROMPT by association.
*> *
*> *  3. Also, usage of z and nj will become ambiguous.
*>          I don't understand how ambiguity arises.
*>          The z ( which I presume you're meaning the Saraswati S)
*>          is produced by aytham(q)+ c.
*>          The nj is used in front of 'c' to produce 'j' which is
*>          really very close and here I don't understand the objections of
*>          Dr. Kalyan as well.
*How do you read a_nj_c_aa_n as??? As per your method it will be
*as  ajaan. But currently it is pronounced as anjaan which means
*one who does not fear. 

      The word a_nj_c_aa_n (fearless person) will be as you've written. 
      If you want *ajaan* then you'll write a_(nj)_c_aa_n. 
      The nj will be WITHIN BRACKETS. 
      This is similar to some hyphenated words we use in
      English or as we use copyright symbol. I illustrated
      Taj Mahal like this in my webpage. 
      Using brackets within a word
      is not a pretty thing but I believe we'll get used to it.

      For non-tamil words the rules re this are as follows:

       (1) A pure consonant at the beginning of a word will not be
           pronounced but it is an aid to pronounce the following uyirmey

       (2) When G,J,D,Dh,B occur in the middle or at the end of a word,
           the pure consonant used to modify will be within brackets.
           Examples: Taj Mahaal = th_aa_(nj)_c    ma_k_aa_l
                     Bog road   = m_pO_(ng)_k rO_du 

                     [Alternatively we can write  m_pO_ku rO_du ]

      I hope it is now clear.

*"q" is very much connected with "ha" sound. But imo it  is not at all
*with "sa". You do not have to pull your tounge inside to pronounce sa
*you need to for ha. So, it goes well with ha and not sa.

     The aytham ('q') is undoubtedly a very complex sound. 
     *One* of the main characteristics of this is a slight puffing
     of air. True, normally we have a contraction near the uL_naa
     as for 'k' but there are words like paqRuLi aaRu where it gets
     modified quite a bit. If you say i_q (Aytham) + ca you're not
     going to say iq_CHA but more like iq_sa. Thus ignore the initial
     transient _i_ and you've the 'sa' as in sarppam ( paambu). After
     the aytham the nuni_naa ( tip of the tongue) is quickly active
     in paqRuLi aaRu. It is not exactly the tip of the tongue but
     close enough. 

     Please think about it.  I think sa is not a problem.
*"z"+"ca", though technically not so ambiguous, find it a bit difficult

     Here as Kalyan and a few other have clearly recognized, the 'z'
     draws the tongue approximately as required for sha especially if
     followed by 'c'. The vadamozhi sha does not require so much of the
     tongue movement and it puffs out air a bit harshly
     ( unlike tamil zha). There are two vadamozhi sha. The combination
     z+c is not intended to be an accurate reproduction of sha, but
     an identifying device with some help based on tamil phonemes. 
     There are problems in this method as well. For example 
     The tamil word cuuzcci (conspiracy) might be pronouced as
     cuushci which is not too bad just in case the guy does not know
     it is a tamil word. 

*> *    I just want to warn(please do not think that I am discouraging you
*> *    and its not used in a harsh way) any of the effort of this kind
*> *    that We should always have the simplicity of Tamil in mind. Touching
*> *    the script (particularly adding something to it based on the sound)
*> *    should be avoided as much as possible. We should not just think
*> *about
*> *    the sounds that have come into Tamil in these recent(say 100/200)
*> *years
*> *    and add a letter to the script. If that is the rate a script gets
*> *    modified (particularly addtions based on new sounds!), We'll not
*> *have
*> *    Tamil after 1000 years.
*>        Nagu, as you can guess, I'm 100% with you. I will write about
*>        this in a separate thread. Many people including people don't
*>        understand what is the system used in Tamil and what are the guiding
*>        thoughts. Our forefathers have so carefully designed a system
*>        which has served us so well. Tamils explicitly avoided certain
*>        sounds and in certain sequences.
*>        We are not averse to 'progress' and adopting new features,
*>        as is known  'puthiyan puguthalum, pazayna kazithalum
*>        kaala vakaiyinaanE', but not anything new and novel is beneficial.
*>        puthiyathellaam puthumai alla. ivaLam perukkum puthuppayan
*>        tharuvathu puthumai.
*anbu Selva, ennudaiya vEndukOL. Yes, I really do not know much of our
*If you can write about them, And put these rules out, that will be
*really useful
*for our discussion. Thank You In Advance.

     I'll try Nagu. I don't know much either. But these rules are not
*Thamiz ini viraivil vaLarum....


        anbudan selvaa


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